Dear Listeners,

Here is the second part of a discussion about Healing Discipline, published by the Windhorse Legacy Project. This new book is an edited collection of three seminars given by Dr. Ed Podvoll in the mid-eighties.

My connection to this book is as the managing editor for the Windhorse Legacy Project. Jeff Fortuna and I have spent the last year transforming Ed’s raw lectures into a readable—hopefully relevant—book, with notes and introductions.

For me, this has been an interesting lesson in translation. Many of the teachings Ed shares on Buddhism and psychology were taught to him. He then applied them in his own way, transforming them through his own experience. With the original transcripts in hand, Jeff and I had to decide what to keep, cut, and clarify in our own way in order that the teachings felt current and applicable to us. The intent was to translate the essence of the material for a modern audience, not robotically preserve the literal past. I hope you feel invited to do the same sorting and applying; what here feels relevant to your personal and clinical life? In this episode, you can hear the group doing this for themselves.

The gem that always shines out to me in the section on counter-transference, which the group discusses first, is Ed’s warning about the urge toward rescue, cure, and professionalism—poisons to the therapeutic relationship. The group also discusses the somewhat esoteric concept of bardo but are quick to point out—as Ed does—all the ways this somewhat science-fictiony concept (to quote Blake Baily) is happening all the time. We are always in-between something, waiting … for a pandemic to end, for better health, for someone else to change. The group discusses how these in-betweens are cyclical opportunities to let go, dig in, wake up.

Thank you for listening,

Skye K. Levy



Edward M Podvoll, M.D., a psychiatrist and psychoanalyst, founded the Contemplative Psychotherapy Department at Naropa University in Boulder, Colorado, and directed it for twelve years. During that time he also founded and was the medical director of the Windhorse Project, a highly lauded treatment community known for its compassionate care. Dr. Podvoll had returned to Boulder after twelve years of Buddhist meditation retreat and resumed his training of the Windhorse Project therapists.





Kathy Emery, M.A., L.P.C., is a 1980 graduate of the East/West Psychology program from the Naropa University and has been a practitioner of the Windhorse approach to working with others for over 30 years.  She also is a former Adjunct Faculty member at Naropa and continues to engage in and contribute to the study and practice of Contemplative Psychotherapy, which is the ground of the Windhorse approach.





Jeffrey Fortuna, M.A., L.P.C., received his MA in Contemplative Psychotherapy at Naropa University in 1980, and served on the Naropa faculty until 1989.  In 1981, he co-founded the first Windhorse center, Maitri Psychological Services in Boulder, CO.  From 1989 to 1992, Mr. Fortuna founded and directed a Windhorse group in Halifax, Nova Scotia.  In 1992, he co-founded Windhorse Associates, Inc., and served as Executive/Clinical Director.  In 2002, Jeff returned to Boulder as a co-director of Windhorse Community Services,Inc.  He retired from his co-director role in 2013, yet continues to serve as a senior clinician and educator.  He has taught widely, and written a book chapter and journal papers in the area of Windhorse treatment.



Eugenie Morton, M.A., L.P.C., received her undergraduate degree at the University of Colorado, Boulder.  She earned her MA in Contemplative Psychotherapy from Naropa University in 1987.  Eugenie has worked extensively in the filed of recovery since the 1980’s.  She joined Windhorse Community Services in 1988 and currently serves as a Team Supervisor and Psychotherapist.  Eugenie’s unique style, diverse experiences through travel, teaching self- defense, and her own lived experience provide a foundation for her work.  She most enjoys working with women, emancipating youth, and those looking to build a fulfilling life that encourages our unique gifts.



Blake Baily, M.A., L.P.C., BCPC, has worked and volunteered in the mental health field since 1987. He has a B.S. in Psychology and an M.A. in Counseling from Naropa University. He has a certificate in Mindfulness instruction and Windhorse Intensive Psychotherapy training. Blake has been with Windhorse since 2002.





Chuck Knapp, M.A., L.P.C., a student of Chogyam Trungpa and graduate of Naropa University, worked closely for many years with Dr. Ed Podvoll, originator of the Windhorse Approach. Chuck was a founding member and later director of Friendship House, which was a publically funded residential treatment home for people with extreme mental states. In 1990 he co-founded Windhorse Community Services in Boulder, Colorado, where he served as a Co-Director until 2019, and currently works as a senior clinician. Through his published writings, presentations at conferences, and as co-founder and coordinator of the Windhorse Journal in 2018, Chuck continues to share his interest in exploring mindfulness-based therapeutic environments for both individual and social wellbeing.